Introducing our comprehensive guide to mastering modern time management for lawyers! Whether you’re juggling billable hours or balancing personal commitments, these five strategies will revolutionize how you manage your time:

Embrace Digital Scheduling: Transition to digital scheduling tools like Google Calendar or Outlook to streamline your workload. From yearly plans to daily to-dos, keep your schedule synced across all devices.

Set SMART Goals: Begin with clear, actionable goals for the year, breaking them down into monthly milestones. With a roadmap in place, stay focused on what truly matters, adjusting priorities as needed.

Master the Art of Delegation: Identify tasks that can be outsourced or shared, freeing up valuable time for high-impact work. Remember, saying “no” to non-essential tasks is saying “yes” to your priorities.

Minimize Distractions: Create a distraction-free workspace to maximize productivity. Turn off non-essential notifications, designate specific focus hours, and prioritize deep work over multitasking.

Make Every Minute Count: Utilize downtime for productivity bursts. Whether waiting in line or commuting, tackle quick tasks like email triage or social media engagement. Every minute adds up to your goals.

Ready to supercharge your time management skills? Share your favorite strategies and join the conversation! Let’s empower each other to thrive in the modern legal landscape.

I’m on hold, listening to what I’m sure this company assured itself was jazzy music, while I try not to grind my teeth together.

It has been four weeks since the dishwasher repairman was here to assure me that it would only be “a few days” before a new dishwasher was installed.

Now, listen, this is REALLY a high-class problem. Plenty of people don’t have dishwashers, because they ARE the dishwasher. I have a new appreciation for that as someone who has spent a lot of weeks washing her own dishes – though I’d really like to be able to boil some dog dishes in the dishwasher again, especially with an ancient basset hound who is more susceptible to bacteria in his advanced age.

But it’s easy to cope with, not a major issue. But it IS something I’m paying for. I have extra insurance that allows me to make a claim when I have certain repairs needed, pay a lesser amount for those repairs and (theoretically) get quick and decent service by vetted repair people. Usually, it goes fine.

But this time, the bureaucracy stepped in, because I know that when the tech recommended a new dishwasher, someone above him insisted that they hunt instead for parts that don’t actually exist for my 30+-year-old dishwasher <<insert comment about how they don’t make ’em like they used to>>.

And so, now, it’s been a month that I’ve waited. The time isn’t the problem – it’s the lack of communication. Except for a cryptic call a couple of weeks ago, when a recording told me that they were canceling a repair appointment that I didn’t know I had because the parts weren’t in yet, it’s been radio silent. I had to call them.

Let’s contrast this with a story I read yesterday on Threads – a travel writer posted that she had arrived in India to find that an airline had lost her luggage. These days, we all know that’s a typical occurrence. Her hotel – and I am going to name-drop them – the Leela Hotel in New Delhi, not only communicated with the airline for her, but they also picked her bag up from the airport when it arrived, delivered it to her room wrapped in a bow AND gave her a cake in the shape of her actual luggage to welcome her back to her room that day.

Now THAT is going the extra mile.

If you’re still with me by now, you may be wondering what ANY of this has to do with lawyers. Hopefully, you’ve already figured it out – it’s all about client service. You don’t have to bake your clients a cake – though I’m going to be honest, it wouldn’t hurt. I also accept cake by the way.

But there are some very important lessons in both of the above stories that are truly relevant:

Communication and Expectations:

Regular updates and transparency build trust.

Set realistic expectations from the outset, tailored to each client’s communication preferences.

Taking Ownership and Prioritizing Quality:

Own and resolve issues promptly, avoiding blame or excuses.

Prioritize client needs over bureaucratic processes, ensuring quality service delivery.

Proactivity and Continuous Improvement:

Anticipate and address potential problems before they escalate.

Seek feedback and continually improve client service processes.

Personalization and Anticipating Needs:

Tailor service to meet each client’s unique needs and preferences.

Anticipate client needs proactively to provide a seamless experience.

Surprise and Delight:

Create memorable experiences through thoughtful gestures and surprises, fostering client loyalty.

The theme throughout the above is obviously knowing your client, which most lawyers excel at and using that knowledge to meet their needs when you communicate with them, continuously improving your services, anticipating their needs, and working to surprise and delight them. This is how you not only make them happy and retain them as clients, but ensure that they are the bullhorn for your services to their peers.

In our ongoing series on essential soft skills for lawyers, we’ve tackled the basics and presentations, and now, we’re diving into the realm of business writing. While you might be proficient in legal jargon, effective business writing demands clarity, conciseness, and accessibility – qualities that resonate with both legal and non-legal audiences alike.

So, how can you enhance your business writing prowess in today’s digital landscape?

Write Regularly

Practice makes perfect, as the saying goes. Take every opportunity to hone your writing skills, whether it’s drafting legal briefs or crafting blog posts. However, don’t limit yourself to legal topics. Identify areas of interest or expertise outside the legal realm that you can explore through writing. Whether you’re sharing insights on niche legal subjects or delving into personal interests like cooking or technology, writing consistently is key to improvement.

Choose the Right Platform

Consider platforms that align with your goals and target audience. LinkedIn Publisher offers a built-in audience and is ideal for sharing professional insights. If you’re considering a standalone blog, collaborate with your firm’s marketing team to establish a compelling business case. Selecting the right platform ensures your content reaches the intended audience effectively.

Know Your Audience

Identify who you’re writing for and tailor your content accordingly. Whether it’s general counsel, HR managers, or industry influencers, understanding your audience’s needs and preferences is crucial. Focus on providing actionable insights and solutions to their pain points. Keep your writing clear, concise, and relevant to maintain reader engagement.

Read Widely

Expand your reading repertoire to enhance your writing skills. Explore articles and blog posts on topics similar to your interests. Analyze the writing style of industry thought leaders and identify what resonates with you. Utilize social media platforms like Threads and LinkedIn to discover trending topics and influential voices. Drawing inspiration from diverse sources will enrich your writing style and broaden your perspective.

Engage with Thought Leaders

Engage with thought leaders in your field by responding to their content and sharing your insights. Collaborate on co-authored articles to showcase your expertise and strengthen professional relationships. Look beyond your immediate industry for inspiration and learn from different approaches to business writing.

Seek Feedback

Invite feedback from trusted peers and mentors to refine your writing. Solicit constructive criticism on clarity, tone, and relevance. Use feedback to fine-tune your writing style and ensure it resonates with your intended audience. Embrace criticism as an opportunity for growth and continuous improvement.

Sharing Is Caring

Share your writing with your intended audience and a select group of editorial allies for feedback. Leverage social media platforms to amplify your reach and engage with your audience. Cultivate a culture of sharing and collaboration to foster professional growth and thought leadership.

By honing your business writing skills, you’ll not only enhance your communication abilities but also establish yourself as a trusted authority in your field. Embrace the evolving landscape of legal writing, and you’ll be well-equipped to navigate various professional avenues with confidence and clarity.

You may have heard that Robert Downey, Jr.(RDJ) won the Screen Actors Guild award a few weeks ago for his portrayal of Lewis Strauss in Oppenheimer. I didn’t watch the awards ceremony, but I heard later that RDJ mentioned Mel Gibson in his speech – he was thanking several celebrities who had influenced his career, and Gibson was one of them.

Because of RDJ’s decades-long work on his sobriety, he works hard not to be judgemental of other people, and supposedly this is where his willingness to forgive Gibson for his previous harm to others comes in. Gibson isn’t the only one that RDJ has so willingly forgiven – RDJ has also recently helped Armie Hammer, who was credibly accused of several things (I won’t detail them here, but you can easily google them; no actual charges have ever been filed).

This past weekend, RDJ then won his first Oscar for the same role and seemed to snub beloved actor Ke Huy Quan, which again led to calls for his “cancellation” and referring to him as a “villain.”

This got me thinking about the idea of “cancel culture,” but more specifically that of real and meaningful apologies and changed behavior. It’s a nice idea that RDJ wants to be non-judgemental of Gibson, but if we’re honest, it seems that Gibson is not sorry for the things that he has done and said, including according to this article from the Daily Beast, “racist rants and domestic violence, antisemitic remarks, and homophobia,” not to mention, using the “n-word” a handful of times.

Shouldn’t we be judgemental of that? What’s left if we’re NOT judgemental of that?

And listen, I, too, want to live in a world where we’re reaching across the table to people who think differently from the way we do, to create a level of understanding and friendship. But I don’t want to do that if I’m also harming others at the same time. Is it more important to call Mel Gibson in or to protect the groups of people that Gibson is harming – Black people, women, LGBTQIA+, and Jewish people?

And this is where the idea of cancel culture comes in.

We’re all human. We’re all going to make mistakes – some small, some big, and some REALLY big. I’ve made some big mistakes before. And I hope that when I make those mistakes, that someone, hopefully, everyone, is going to give me the grace to learn from those mistakes and to do better.

But I also have to be open to that learning. Not just open, but also understanding of the harm I may have created with the mistake. To know that some errors cannot be easily repaired. That impact IS greater than intent and not everything can be forgiven, even when my future actions show that I’ve learned my lesson.

This is where humility comes in – not humiliation, that’s different – but real, honest humility. Being willing to listen to the harmed party, to understand what I did wrong, without needing or trying to justify or excuse my behavior or words. And then a willingness to change my behavior.

Cancel culture exists because people are not truly apologizing. They’re either not actually sorry that they upset and harmed someone in the first place or they don’t believe they did anything wrong (see: Mel Gibson) or they just want the whole thing to blow over so that they can keep doing what they were doing, hopefully without consequences. Many of them don’t understand what the big deal is, or they feel like THEY are the slighted party for being called out.

Do we sometimes take the call out too far, because everyone feels like they get a say in what should be a private matter? Sure. Social media has made it possible, and in some cases, people feel it is their responsibility to weigh in on every incident.

And while we may not NEED to weigh in on everything – do I get the irony that I’m weighing in on a cultural happening here on my blog? I do – there’s nothing wrong with using things that happen in society to reflect on them in our own lives, with our own networks, and to use them as discussion points for our friends, families, and connections. As the memes often say, “[insert famous person] may not see your careless and callous comment about them, but your friends and family will.” And isn’t that the truth?

What does ANY of this have to do with lawyers?

The legal industry doesn’t exist in a bubble. We CERTAINLY can benefit from being called in, humility, and understanding what cancel culture truly is. I’ve spoken before here about real and meaningful apologies and I believe that they’re something that every good leader – and honestly, every good human, should understand how to make. We’re in an age of reckoning, whether it’s with racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, ableism, classism, or a litany of other things, these are issues that we must consider within ourselves and our organizations.

All of us – every person – will make mistakes. We can’t lead perfectly or succeed at work perfectly. Failure IS human. And that’s great news. But what we DO with that failure is important. When we harm someone with our words or actions, and especially if they are brave enough to let us know that they have been harmed, we have the opportunity to try to repair that harm, both with our words and our future actions. It will still be like a broken plate that’s been glued back together – not quite as good as if we’d never broken it. But it doesn’t mean that we don’t do our best.

In closing, as we navigate the complexities of accountability and forgiveness, let us not merely contemplate these issues but actively engage with them. Let us challenge ourselves to confront harmful behaviors and attitudes, both in ourselves and in others, with humility and a commitment to growth. By fostering genuine dialogue, acknowledging the impact of our actions, and striving to make amends, we can contribute to a culture of accountability and compassion. Let us embrace the opportunity for personal and societal transformation, recognizing that change begins with each one of us. Together, let’s work towards a future where understanding, empathy, and genuine accountability prevail.

As we started to discuss last week, in the realm of legal practice, mastering soft skills is just as crucial as understanding the law itself. One such skill that often requires refinement is the art of presentation. Whether you’re a fledgling attorney or a seasoned professional, effective presentation skills can significantly bolster your career trajectory.

Now, let’s address the elephant in the room: public speaking. For many, the mere thought of standing before an audience induces a sense of dread. Trust me, I get it. However, even if public speaking isn’t your forte, cultivating this skill can pay dividends in various professional scenarios. As an introvert myself, I’ve found that embracing public speaking has not only bolstered my confidence but also enhanced my ability to communicate effectively in diverse settings, from networking events to impromptu meetings.

Unfortunately, formal education often overlooks public speaking as a crucial skill. While you might excel at arguing cases in law school or the courtroom, captivating an audience requires a different set of abilities altogether.

So, what can you do to hone your presentation prowess?

Practice, Practice, Practice

Embrace every opportunity to speak publicly, starting small if necessary. Consider volunteering at charitable events, alumni panels, or within your firm.

Rehearse rigorously. Crafting your presentation well in advance allows ample time for practice, helping you iron out any wrinkles and boost your confidence.

Ask for Feedback

Solicit constructive criticism from friends, mentors, and trusted colleagues. Their insights can offer invaluable perspectives on refining your delivery and content.

Engage in role-playing exercises with industry mentors to simulate various speaking scenarios, from Q&A sessions to business meetings.

Record and review your presentations to identify areas for improvement, including body language and audience engagement.

Watch Others

Study compelling speakers both online and locally. Analyze their techniques, from body language to speech patterns, and incorporate elements that resonate with your style.

Attend local speaking engagements to observe diverse presentation styles and glean insights for enhancing your delivery.

Seek Expert Assistance

Join a local Toastmasters club to practice public speaking in a supportive environment and receive constructive feedback.

Consider enrolling in an improv class to sharpen your improvisational skills and bolster your confidence in handling unexpected situations.

In essence, effective presentation skills transcend mere public speaking; they empower you to articulate ideas convincingly and connect with your audience authentically. Whether you’re advocating for a client in court or delivering a keynote address, mastering the art of presentations is a professional asset that transcends the confines of legal practice. So, embrace the challenge, and let your voice be heard.

In today’s hyper-connected world, our devices keep us tethered to work even during off-hours. While taking breaks is crucial for well-being, being responsive remains a cornerstone of client and business relationships. Yet, it’s surprising how often this simple aspect is overlooked.

It’s a major pet peeve of mine when emails go unanswered, and I know many share this sentiment. Let’s delve into why responsiveness matters and how it’s an easy fix.

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In today’s landscape of business and relationship development, sharing content has become a cornerstone strategy. While it might seem counterintuitive to share the limelight with others by quoting or referencing them in your articles and posts, it’s not only essential but also a savvy business development practice. Here’s why:

It establishes you as a good content citizen: While we all understand the importance of avoiding plagiarism, acknowledging the sources of inspiration behind our ideas is equally crucial. Recognizing the contributions of others not only upholds ethical standards but also enhances your credibility and authenticity in the eyes of your audience.

It adds value for your audience: Sharing content isn’t just about showcasing your thoughts and words; it’s also an opportunity to introduce your audience to other insightful voices. By linking to the original work or profiles of those who inspired you, you enrich the experience of your audience and demonstrate a commitment to providing diverse perspectives and resources.

It’s a strategic move: Leveraging others’ content can be a strategic tactic in your business and relationship development efforts. Suppose there’s a potential client or influencer whose attention you seek. In that case, you can use their content as a springboard for your ideas. By referencing and tagging them in your posts, you not only acknowledge their contributions but also initiate meaningful connections. This approach opens doors for collaboration, fosters reciprocity, and expands your network in a genuine and organic manner.

As you prepare to craft your next article, blog post, podcast, or presentation, reflect on the sources of your inspiration and how you can best acknowledge them. Whether it’s through direct quotations, citations, social media tags, invitations to collaborate or share the stage or microphone, remember that giving credit where it’s due is not just good practice; it’s a testament to your integrity and respect for the collective knowledge within your community.

So, as you embark on your content creation journey, embrace the spirit of collaboration, and let your content serve as a beacon of authenticity and generosity in your professional endeavors.

Ever feel overwhelmed by marketing jargon? You’re not alone. Let’s demystify some buzzwords and explore how you’re likely already engaging in effective relationship-building through your content. This all might sound a little bit scary, but I promise, once we get rid of the jargon, you’re going to realize how accessible to you it all is!

Today, we hear terms like “social media marketing” and “content marketing” tossed around. At first glance, they might seem intimidating, but in reality, they describe activities many of us are already familiar with.

For instance, “social media marketing” emerged as we adapted offline relationship-building techniques to online platforms. Similarly, “content marketing” encompasses much of what law firms have been doing for years – sharing legal insights with clients. While these terms might sound complex, they often represent activities you’re already undertaking, just with a new label attached.

Within these marketing strategies, we’ve identified two approaches: “broadcasters” and “engagers.” Broadcasters focus on spreading their message (essentially posting or sharing news or content), while engagers prioritize building relationships. Both have their merits, but the latter, known as “relationship marketing,” emphasizes meaningful connections over mass dissemination.

As attorneys, relationship marketing aligns perfectly with our profession’s emphasis on word-of-mouth referrals. We’ve been cultivating relationships for years; social media and content simply amplify those efforts.

Let’s break down two key tactics for effective relationship marketing:

Tactic One: Inbound Marketing

“Inbound marketing” entails actively drawing your audience to your content. It’s about sparking dialogue and engaging your community. While lawyers may encounter challenges in fostering online engagement, there are strategies to overcome these barriers:

Start conversations: Pose questions in your social media posts to encourage interaction.

Be proactive: Use your content to connect with influencers and peers, demonstrating your expertise and fostering relationships.

Share and engage: Share valuable content from others in your industry, tagging them to initiate dialogue and showcase your knowledge.

Tactic Two: User-Generated Content

User-generated content (UGC) involves leveraging your audience’s contributions to enhance your online presence. While encouraging UGC in the legal field presents unique challenges, there are ways to prompt meaningful engagement:

Write for your audience: Solicit input from your audience by addressing their legal concerns in your content.

Seed the content: Encourage participation from your colleagues to kickstart engagement and demonstrate a thriving online community.

By embracing relationship marketing, lawyers can strengthen client connections and foster new business opportunities. Despite the evolving terminology, the essence remains unchanged: building meaningful relationships that drive success.

How is your firm leveraging relationship marketing to advance your business goals? Let’s continue the conversation in the comments!

Lawyers understand better than most the significance of words – after all, who comprehends more than a contract lawyer that a subtle clause can either seal or sabotage a deal?

Yet, who better than your marketing team realizes that “marketing” often carries negative connotations?

It shouldn’t – and I’ll delve into why shortly.

But how many of you (raise your hands) view marketing as something handled sporadically by a group in your office?

How many of you associate marketing solely with brochures and advertisements?

How many of you see marketers as individuals who merely solicit funds and then design logos or ensure an ample supply of business cards?

Okay, lower your hands. I have news for you – marketing encompasses everything you do.

So, oftentimes, we use terms like “marketing,” “business development,” “branding,” and others rather interchangeably. Though nuanced and distinct, for the purpose of today’s discussion, let’s focus on marketing and refer to the American Marketing Association’s official definition:

“Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large.”

Marketing is Ubiquitous.

When phrased in this manner, it’s evident that much of what you do as a lawyer falls under the umbrella of marketing – even your legal work, which entails delivering offerings that hold value for clients, is marketing. Every interaction you and your firm have with clients, potential clients, and influencers constitutes marketing.

Every time your assistant or the firm’s receptionist answers the phone: Marketing.

Every time a client receives an email from you: Marketing.

Every time a client receives a bill from you: Marketing.

Every time you discuss your professional endeavors with someone: Marketing.

Every time you welcome a client or potential client into your office: Marketing.

Does that notion unsettle you a bit? It should. It boils down to this: everything you do, from what you convey to how you convey it, to the appearance of your office, to the company you keep, and more, shapes the impression that people form about you and your business – that’s marketing. All of it.

There’s a compelling insight from Blue Kite Marketing on why you should adopt a marketer’s mindset, stating:

“Marketing is something that should permeate your entire organization. After all, every interaction and touchpoint with customers can be scrutinized or applauded and then shared with the world.”

Word of mouth remains crucial in the legal sphere – always has been. With social media, every one of those impressions is not solely experienced by the client, potential client, or influencer; it’s something each of them can share with a broad audience – they’re no longer merely recounting a story among friends and family; they’re posting it online for the world to see.

And guess what? That’s marketing too. Are you certain people are conveying what you want them to about you and your firm?

Blue Kite Marketing emphasizes that “every employee is in the marketing department.” That doesn’t imply that you need to start contemplating running ads or determining the optimal graphics for your brochure (and as a side note, that’s also NOT what your marketing department is doing either).

It signifies recognizing that everything you do – including how you practice law – communicates a message about the kind of lawyer you are. How you manage your clients, engage with colleagues and referral sources, network at events and in social settings, and collaborate with your associates – all amalgamate to represent you as a lawyer.

Have you pondered the kind of experience you’re delivering through those facets? Is it the message you want clients, potential clients, and influencers to perceive about you and share with others? (You may recall we touched on this to some extent in our discussion on personal branding.)

What Sets You Apart

When I pose this question, I’m sure you can instantly recollect your elevator speech – the succinct couple of sentences describing what you do and the value you bring to your clients. And to some degree, that’s what we’re exploring here. But let’s delve deeper.

Blue Kite Marketing posits:

“People use hundreds of products and services every day. About 95 percent of those interactions go completely unnoticed. Another three percent of those experiences are ones that you are complaining about. What makes the remaining two percent worth talking about?”

Reflect for a moment on all the interactions you engage in daily – with colleagues, with providers of goods and services, with family members and friends, etc. Which of those are the most memorable?

Ask yourself WHY those interactions stand out. Perhaps someone went the extra mile when they didn’t have to, or someone comprehended your needs even when articulated differently. Maybe they exhibited exceptional kindness and cheerfulness in a challenging situation, or they recalled something about you from a previous encounter that surprised you.

Jot it down and contemplate how you can translate that into the kind of service you provide to your clients. If something is memorable for you, it will be memorable for your clients (provided you translate it to address their needs and desires).

When you create memorable experiences for your clients, potential clients, and influencers, you empower them to advocate for you – they’ll be marketing for you. Why is that crucial? We’re far more inclined to consider doing business with someone if someone we trust recounts a remarkable experience they had with that individual – not merely a good experience, but a remarkable one.

Ask yourself today – what makes me worth talking about?

Remember, being an exceptional lawyer delivering client value in your practice is essentially the bare minimum in today’s marketplace. Numerous outstanding lawyers possess excellent education, extensive experience, and aptitude. But what will prompt a client, a colleague, or a friend to endorse someone else from the rooftops?

Alishan Naqvee is the founding partner of LexCounsel, one of the ILN’s member firms in India. In this episode, Alishan and Lindsay delve into several serious and interesting topics, from the very different and yet linked internal and external challenges of managing a law firm to the changing landscape of the legal industry for corporate lawyers or “boardroom lawyers” to the potential impact of AI on the industry.

You can listen to the podcast here, or we’ve provided a transcript of the highlights below.

Lindsay: Hello, and welcome to the Law Firm ILN-telligence Podcast. I’m your host, Lindsay Griffiths, executive director of the International Lawyers Network. Our guest this week is Alishan Naqvee of LexCounsel in New Delhi. We’re really happy to have you with us, Alishan. If you could take a couple of minutes to tell us about yourself and your firm and your practice, we would really appreciate that.

Alishan: Well, thanks, Lindsay, for this session. Thank you very much. I have been a lawyer practicing for the last 25 years. Seems like an age since I started practicing. Over this period of time, I have practiced in the area of corporate law. Started as a corporate lawyer, went on to become a litigator. So, I do both. My individual practice includes both litigation and corporate. I set up the firm LexCounsel with three other partners, at that time in 2004 after having worked in different firms for about five to six years, and we have completed a number of years and as you see we’ll be completing about 20 years of this firm next year.

We have over this period of time worked for numerous Fortune 500 companies. In fact, a lot of Fortune 100 companies also, brought in many businesses to India. Worked in some of the widely reported cases in the Indian courts, had very good ratings in a lot of legal directories. Accumulated a number of hardworking and diligent workers with us, lawyers with us, and very good affiliations. We have about five offices, so I can’t complain about the practice, and I can’t complain about the way this law firm has panned out for us, along with the association with ILN.

Lindsay: That’s great. It’s interesting because your firm started the same year that I started my career in the legal industry, so we’re right about the same time.

Alishan: Very good.

Lindsay: So, let’s get into our questions. What would you say is the biggest challenge for you at the moment, and how are you working to overcome that?

Alishan: So, Lindsay, I gave a thought about it, and there are two things. One is internal and one is external. Those are the challenges that I face, and to have a candid talk over the podcast. The internal challenges, of course, are client expectations. There are also you have… I am of a different generation, we have lawyers of different generation, priorities are different, working styles are different. We started in the time when we had to go to the library and look for a case law. So, finding the law was very difficult at that time. Today, finding the law is very easy, but so is the easy for your adversaries. The opposite side also has access to the same law. So, knowledge is no longer the factor which tilts the scale in your favor. It is actually the analysis which is the differentiator. So, while everybody has access to the same law, you have to have better analytical abilities to be successful in the world.

So, one thing that we see, especially is because each law firm operates in a different way, you have lateral hires, of course, you have homegrown talent also, people who join you, who interned with you, who joined. And we have people who interned with us, joined us after becoming a lawyer, and today they are partners with us. And they’re also heading some of the other offices that we have. At the same time, the reality of this practice is that you also have lateral hires. Sometimes the culture of reporting to the managing client expectations is very different in different forms. So, it takes time. So as the practice grows, it becomes very difficult for somebody who has set up the firm and who’s managing the practice to put everybody and everyone in the same format of client responsiveness, managing client expectation. And that is one of the internal challenge.

It’s a constant challenge, and as I speak with my colleagues who are partners in different firms, managing practice, having practicing partners with them who are looking after different clients, but they are managing the overall practice, like being the litigation head or corporate head. That is the issue that they also are facing. And this is a challenge where different partners have different working style, but otherwise you are part of the same firm. So, bringing that parity, bringing that semblance, bringing that equity, bringing that same way of approaching clients and client problems, bringing the firm culture, also keeping everybody happy is one of the internal challenge. And it’s a constantly moving goalpost. Now in terms of external challenge, what in India typically I will say, that the challenge that I’m seeing in the last few years is the differentiation that is coming in the boardroom versus courtroom lawyers.

And let me explain that a little bit. As a courtroom lawyer, I am engaged by a client in a case post facto, means that the reason for which that person is going to the court, either to assert a right or to defend himself, whether against the government or against any private party, that issue has already happened. My engagement is after that. I have no say in the happening or not happening of that event. My role is very much limited on a power of autonomy, which, in India is to represent that client to the best of my abilities. But when you are a boardroom lawyer and you are sitting with the management in the boardroom so many times, you also see transactions and you also see issues which are coming up so many times, you also have your own policies. So many times, their business compulsions have declined.

So, at that time you have to take a call and tell the client that this is legally permissible, this is not legally permissible. And sometimes it may so happen that different clients have different risk appetite. So, at some point of time, if a client has a risk appetite higher than you, what do you do? You stay in the board, or you disengage. So, the differentiation of boardroom versus courtroom lawyer is a very important differentiation, and this is a challenge. Now, challenge is because this is a matter of perception. For me, the risk perception of a particular transaction as a boardroom lawyer may be different as compared to some of my partners, some of my associates.

And most of the meetings, if a three year or four-year associate is going, the firm is participating. So now you understand. So that is the second challenge that we have to face. And this is an unforeseen situation, because you can’t predict what will be discussed at a meeting. You can’t talk about these probabilities. So, then you have to come, you have to review, you have to take a call. This management is not essentially legal practice, but management of your practice in an ethical and legal way, which is an external challenge that all of us face today.

Lindsay: It’s interesting, because I actually think those two challenges, especially the boardroom lawyer challenge, ties into your internal challenges, because you’re talking about this need for expertise and the way that the practice of law has changed and how lawyers learn and how it used to be this need for having to go to law books and now knowledge is really at your fingertips. And so, the way that lawyers are learning has really changed. And so, as you say, it is really about the analysis of the law and how lawyers pick that up.

And so, as you say, you might have this three, four-year associate that you’ve got going into a boardroom meeting and you don’t know what’s going to be discussed. And so, you have to really have confidence in that lawyer and the way they analyze the situation. So, it’s a question of the level of confidence that you have in those lawyers, how they’re learning. And so, it’s sort of a juxtaposition between those two things. How do you really have confidence in how lawyers are learning today and the analysis of the situation and their appetite for risk as it relates to the client’s appetite for risk? So, sometimes those challenges really overlap quite interestingly.

Alishan: Correct. And Lindsay, what is also happening in the Indian landscape is that there is a legal responsibility and accountability which is being fixed. Across the world also it was there, it is coming in India. So chartered accountants and company secretaries have separate obligations for ensuring the legality of the transactions of the clients that they see. Very soon we’ll also have it. Now, there was a general principle of law which applied more to courtroom lawyers that a lawyer cannot be forced to testify against the client.

Now that applies typically to courtroom lawyers because a client comes to you, he says, this was my transaction. Was is the important word. This was my transaction, and this has happened. Now, how do you defend myself? A lawyer usually won’t say it was illegal, I will not defend you because a lawyer’s job is not to decide for the client. That is the job of the judge. That’s why their name has the prefix or suffix of justice. I’m only an advocate. So, justice has to come from there. My job and my professional obligation to represent that client, even if he’s a murderer to the best of my abilities. I sit in judgment. And if this principle were adopted across the world, if lawyers became judges, a lot of people would not find any counsel.

So, the basic tenet of my profession is that I have to represent my client knowing the facts to the best of my abilities. Now with that came the protection for the lawyers that you cannot be forced to testify against your clients. That is true for courtroom lawyers. But across the world, the scenario is changing, now this is not true for the boardroom lawyers. I have seen in different jurisdictions where the boardroom lawyers get called by the government authorities to testify. So that is why this is very important for your own practice also, that everybody in the firm understands that that protection that you have is available for the court matters, it is not available for boardroom matters. And that is where you need to draw a line and you need to be very stringent about it.

Lindsay: Absolutely. And that goes back to your point about the firm needing to be involved with the boardroom lawyers because as you say, then that needs to have the full protection of the firm and the full advocacy of the firm because you can’t just send in a young lawyer to be there because you don’t know what’s going to be discussed. And if it is a question of the client having a greater appetite for risk than the firm would have, and then the firm is going to get called in to discuss that risk at a later date, then that’s really concerning.

Alishan: And at the same time, you have to be constantly in touch with your… And this is not the challenge that I’m facing. I speak for and on behalf of most of the friends that I have who are my legal colleagues who was in a partnership position or leadership head of the practice position. So, this is the general feeling in India. So, I’m talking about from the Indian landscape.

Lindsay: Right.

Alishan: This is a challenge, not within my firm alone, but this is a general challenge that India is facing when we talk about judicial landscape. It’s an external challenge, which we have to face.

Lindsay: Right. Right. Wow, that’s a lot. Well, on that note, can you talk more generally than about the current state of the market and what that means for you and your clients?

Alishan: Well, India is a happy place to be in. We have started the form, I mean pretty much around the world, it is understood now that India is fairly recession proof. We are an autonomous place where demand and supply is automatically met. We have lots and lots of work from domestic when I started practice. In fact, the best of the clients were from abroad because you could build them well, they were different rates of billing. But today, there is a lot of significant inflow which is coming from outside of India, also into India because India is the place to be. We have a lot of startups which have become unicorns in terms of funding. And funding, I frequently hear it from my friends who are in the industry who source funding, who are themselves investors or who had the funds, venture capitalist stock hedge funds. They say funding is really easy in India because India holds a promise.

So, India is a very good steady story. India is a very good place to be. In fact, India is the new lead of opportunity. And a lot of things are going on for my country, including the language skill, including the stringent and more stringent framework of law that we have, which is giving comfort to a lot of foreign investors. We have a good regime of protection of intellectual property. So, all those things and plus the understanding of law plus the court system. So, I’m very happy to be in India that way. Another thing that in India is happening right now is, and which makes the job of a lawyer like us who deal in litigation and in corporate law a little more difficult because India is also undergoing a significant change in the laws. So, we had the laws… Most of the laws came from the time that we were under colonial rule.

Our penal code for example, our criminal laws, except for the criminal procedure code. That Indian penal code was drafted in 18th century, late 18th century. So those laws are now being rewritten. There are insolvency law which has been rewritten sometime back which has come into being, company law was rewritten. So, what happens with that under a common law country, we follow a precedent system, our judicial precedence on binding orders. So, there is a law and there’s the interpretation of the court of that particular law that is called judicial precedent. When the court interprets a particular law, it is binding within the jurisdiction of that court. So, India is a huge country, we have a lot of high courts.

So the challenge as a lawyer also is to keep yourself aware of all the judgments and also when you do litigation strategy, because my firm practices across India, but in some part of the country there could be one judicial precedent coming from one high court, which may be binding, which may be slightly different in a different court, which is a different high court, unless the Supreme Court decides whose judgments are binding across India. So, while laws are changing, older precedents don’t work with the new laws to some extent because new law may have new precedent and when you have a problem, there may be no precedent. Then you have different high courts. It’s a very large judicial system in India. So that is one thing which is quite challenging, quite interesting. Thankfully with the online libraries and all judicial… The access to judgments as I said earlier, has become easier. Nevertheless, it’s a constant task for the lawyers.

Lindsay: I can imagine. And with things ever-changing, it must be you never know what you’re going to get when you go to court as a litigator.

Alishan: Yes. It’s a constant knowledge announcement process and sometimes the other opposing party or a client or a senior advocate, we have a system of senior advocates where are the advocates, which is special knowledge of law and special contribution, are designated by the court itself to be a senior advocate. They wear a different type of gown and their dress slightly different, black and white, but slightly different. So, they come across and they also tell you some judicial precedent maybe of 20 years back where the same legal principle can be applied and then you go back, and you check it and then you apply to it. So judicial precedent system makes the Indian legal practice and common law legal practice very interesting. It’s not only the law, but also the law, how is it read by the courts?

Lindsay: At least it means things are never dull.

Alishan: Never dull. Yes. We can’t have a dull, we are so many people in India, we don’t have a dull day. Never.

Lindsay: That’s true. That’s true. You are so many people in India. So, what’s the biggest area that’s related either to your practice area or the legal industry in general that you’re curious about?

Alishan: I’d say one thing that has intrigued me in the recent time is the role that artificial intelligence will play. And we have two lines of thinking. We have the likes of visionaries like Elon Musk famously saying that AI is going to make a lot of job and almost all the job redundant recently. At the same time we also have viewpoints where they say that the strategy and analysis with the accumulation of knowledge of law is something which is specific of a particular lawyer. In the given situation, two lawyers may think differently. So, to what extent would AI help us? To what extent will AI replace us? To what extent will AI replace the lawyers at different level? I mean, would AI replace me for my clients, or would AI only replace the lawyers in the bracket of zero to three years in their practice? That means research and drafting, but analysis.

Now, if you see everybody in every jurisdiction, every lawyer goes through the same qualification. They read the same law. Still some lawyers are successful, some aren’t. And when we go to lawyers and we go to doctors, we always give preference to experience. Why? Because the study of law is one thing, but experience of that law and how it’ll pan out in the poll, how the judges will be sensitive about it, how the society will perceive it, how your action will be accepted at the board level, at the shareholder level is something that does not come from the pure study of law. Now whether AI will be able to replace it at any point of time, this judgment is another area which I often think about. Now, let me take a step further. We have a precedent system. I feed in all the precedents we already have online, all the precedents I feed in into the AI system.

Can I say that the courts can be eliminated? You just feed in your facts and the AI writes the judgment for you. So, I was reading somewhere that AI works at three levels, and we have to decide at one point of time, and this is what makes me curious when it comes to legal area as to at what level should we or would we permit AI? And before that, we also assume that we have an ability to permit because AI may automatically just take over without asking for our permission because there are time a dozen companies selling their AI products to law firms every day. So, there is no single body which is today controlling as still what extent AI shall be permitted in legal industry. But when it comes to permission, AI can work in three levels. One is ChatGPT, type where it assimilates all the information with some intelligence and follow up questions and gives it to you. That is the first level.

Second is where AI can solve small problems, for example, traffic violation. Those kind of orders need not be written by the judges because now there is a documentary evidence, there is a photograph of somebody jumping a traffic light and there is nothing to be done in the trial, there is a fixed penalty you paid. Then there come the complex disputes like shareholder disputes, like murder trials where the life and liberty of a person or financial significant financial issues may be at a state, whether AI can go at that domain also and in both the second and third domain, whether the human intervention shall be required.

So, it may happen that in traffic violation cases, AI writes the judgment or AI passes the order, but on a random sampling basis, the judge checks them random, this is like chartered accountants do audit. But when it is a higher dispute or a life and liberty matter, the AI can be used to write a judgment, but at the same time all the judgments and every judgment must necessarily be approved by two or three judges. So, their time of writing a judgment and assimilating the precedent is reduced but is still checking review. So, I don’t know where it will stop, where will it go? But ultimately it’s not on that. The debate of AI is not about eliminating the job of zero to three years. AI, artificial intelligence will grow more intelligent. It’ll go up from three years to senior associates, to councils, to partners, to judges. And whether it’s… That is what I’m curious about Lindsay.

Lindsay: It’s a really interesting question because it starts to… You’re right because the areas that it, as you say, it gets more complex because as you are discussing the complexity of it, I’m thinking about murder trials in particular because I have a secondary interest in true crime. And so, you can talk about the trial and inputting all of the evidence into AI and then letting it decide. But what you’re talking about when you talk about evidence, a lot of that evidence is fallible because the evidence itself is gathered by people and often it’s not accurate because I mean in the US, one in nine capital murder cases is overturned because the evidence itself is fallible. Not even so much the judgment.

And those statistics are terrible because when you think about putting someone to death, just to be transparent, I don’t believe in capital murder for those reasons. And so, if you think about what you would put into an AI, if you are dealing with people putting it into a computer, the computer itself isn’t gathering the evidence. So right there you’re already dealing with fallibility and so the judgment itself would be flawed because you’re dealing with flawed humans putting in evidence that is gathered by people who might have flawed motives and all of those things. So, I think that’s really an interesting case.

As you say, things like maybe traffic tickets where you have something that’s a little more clear cut because you have computers that are gathering the evidence and then computers that are dealing with the evidence is a little different. But as you get to more complex issues, same thing with boardroom discussions where how do you know that the AI is getting all of the relevant information? You don’t. And then the judgment that they’re deciding on, they may not have all of the information to make the correct judgment.

Alishan: Correct. And also, Lindsay, the trial, as you said, trial. It’s very interesting and I’m happy you said it because it’s not about the facts and the judgment. There is a lot which goes in the court in between, there is a cross-examination. Cross-examination is of a witness by a lawyer, both sides. And cross-examination plays a very important part in ultimate decision-making by the judge. So, part of the process, which means that part of the process will be AI, part of the process won’t be, and part of the process will lack in AI. That’s not possible. Now when I discuss it with some of the colleagues, lawyers, they say, “No, that’s never going to happen.” I said, “It’s very good to assume that that’s never going to happen.” When I started my law, studied. And before that I did graduation decades back, I’m an old man. There was no mobile phone.

I used to write a letter to my mother because I came to a different town and it used to reach her in seven days, six to seven days. Then we had phones available in India and it wasn’t in every home. So, we used to book a call and we used to wait. At that time, if somebody would’ve told me that you would have a device on which you will just type a letter and it’ll be delivered like a telegram or an instant message, I would’ve not believed it. So today, if somebody tells me that this is never going to happen, they are just ignoring the truth. If technology can process from a handwritten letter to instant messaging across the world and I and you talking to each other in different time zones on a real time basis when I talk to you, I’m actually talking to future or talking to the past. You are talking to the future because I’m adding to you in time.

Lindsay: That’s right. That’s right.

Alishan: See, we are talking at the same time, but in different… So, this is the marvel of technology. This is the reality. So today saying that AI will not go up to that level is I think ignoring what has to happen. If we have to think of a problem, we have to think now rather than having a problem and then trying to correct it. As I said, there is no body today governing the role of AI into the legal industry. And there are a lot of companies who are centered around infusing AI into legal practice.

A lot of law firms for profitability reasons are also adopting it to some extent. Where will you stop and who will you stop it? Because I have the sole decision over the profitability and revenue abilities and the discharge of work of my client, I don’t need to take anybody’s permission if I want to take a software for contract management, which has a little bit of AI. So, these are the questions. So, you asked, what am I curious about? My curiosity these days is centered around this. I ask myself questions, I give myself answers. Some of the answers don’t answer the questions. Some of the questions are never answered. I’m just going in these circles.

Lindsay: And now you’ve given me a lot to think about, which is always a good thing, I think. But yes, it’s important to think about these things because as you said, things are going to change and where do we stop? So, AI does lack nuance. So, it’s important to begin to think about these things and where we’re going with it before we get to the point where we can’t stop it.

Alishan: Yes.

Lindsay: Yes. Yes. Okay, so let’s switch gears a little bit. Now that we’re afraid of our robot overlords, tell us something interesting about yourself that most people don’t know.

Alishan: A lot actually. I read somewhere a phrase on the funny side. They say, I may be an open book, but a few pages are missing.

Lindsay: I like that.

Alishan: So no, not really. That was joking. I’m fairly transparent, but something that people will not know that I had this passion of going into armed forces all the time and during my law or graduation before that in India, this recruitment process takes, it used to take two, three years because it was an elite exam. So, I have served in Indian Armed Forces, which is in the Ministry of Home Affairs. It is paramilitary force for a small-time as a commissioned officer.

Lindsay: Wow.

Alishan: Yes.

Lindsay: I did not know that.

Alishan: It was very short extent. I resigned and came back after six to seven months after enrollment because there was some constraints for which I had to come back and then rejoined the legal practice in the same firm from where I had left. Before going, I had asked my head of the firm at that time whether I should go or not go. It was the first year of my legal career. So that person said that “You are just starting to be a lawyer, and there you will be a commissioned officer appointed by the president of India in the Indian Armed Forces, it’s extremely prestigious. If I was at your place, I would’ve gone. But the additional comfort that I can give to you is that you can come back any day you want.” That made my decision so easy. And I think today if I would’ve gone, I would’ve perhaps lived in regret at some extent that what if I would’ve lived that life?

Now I know I went there because of some reasons at my family, I could not pursue it any further, so I had to come back. But there’s a great satisfaction, but this part of my life, people don’t know. Other than that, I love spending time, I love monuments. I love seeing ancient historic sites and monuments and we started… I’m based in Delhi. Delhi is a city which is full of monuments. Even if I see a monument every week, I can’t complete all the monuments in my lifetime. There are so many of them spread across India, across Delhi. So, when my daughter is free, the Sundays or Saturday she’s free, visually go in the morning we visit one monument, we identify a monument, read about the history, go there, walk around, and then we have lunch together and come back. That is the sweetest time that I have during the week.

Unfortunately, with my daughter growing up, she’s not allowed to have that time every week because she has her projects and assignments. But whenever I do that, I just love it. And during winters, because winters in our part of the world are more pleasant than the summers. So, during winters of course we try and do it more frequently.

Lindsay: I love that. That’s so great. What a cool thing to do.

Alishan: Yes.

Lindsay: That’s so cool. What would you say is the most important lesson that you’ve learned over your career?

Alishan: Well I have learned not only one, but several lessons. So, what is that? A client can always leave you, but a friend can never leave you. So, what I have thought over a period of time and what we have started doing is a form also. And it’s automatically because if you watch out for the client, the clients become your friends. Some of our longest lasting clients are who weren’t our friends before they became clients. They came on an arm’s length basis and over a period of time when we delivered them legal services in both litigation and corporate area, they slowly started becoming friends and they are continuing with us. So, for the clients and also lawyer, our profession is a profession of comfort and trust. It’s not only a profession of legal acumen, but also understanding the need of the client. It’s also delivering, but at the same time, there is also personal touch.

So, my first lesson is, which I tell everyone in my firm and others have told me also, that a client will leave you, Frank cannot leave you. Second thing that I’ve learned is I have the right to decide the fee for my professional services. Now in India, what has happened is that we are a big country, a lot of lawyers, a lot of law firms are also assuming now, and that has always been the case. But with now global aspirations and all, of course today’s generation more enterprising, more financially secure from home. So, a lot of law firms are coming up and sometimes we do face this situation where the fee comparisons happen. The clients also get three fee codes. I mean, that’s fairly standard across the world that you get two or three fee codes. So again, to understand that I am the sole deciding factor of what my fee would be, and a client may remain with us or come to us at that fee or may not come to us that fee, but we have to stick to whatever fee is.

Now, on the funny side, I’ve also learned that clients who pay you the least give you the maximum amount of sorrow. I was just joking, but somewhere that’s true. From the Indian landscape, Lindsay, I’ve also understood, because I started this firm and I have had friends who went to some of the bigger law firms, went to the competition law practice group or went to the intellectual law practice group, went to the stock markets group and do listing. Now I put a startup firm after six to seven years of practice, five to six years of practice because I practice in all the areas of law. Now, when a client becomes your friend and their client has business across India, he will have requirement in tax, he may have an employment law, he may have in litigation on different funds recovery to insolvency anything, bank loans, shareholder disputes.

So, if you are only specialized in a particular area, you may be called a specialist. But in India, to be able to start your own practice, a journalist law firm set up, a journalist with a very good and grounded understanding of law and landscape in India, practicalities of the Indian landscape is better as compared to only a specialist. Now with these specialists, when they have a aspiration of setting up their own farm, they end up setting up a law firm, which specifically in competition law, now their scope, their fishing net is not cast very wide.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Alishan: They can only catch some of the competition law clients because competition law clients will also have issues and will also have preferences of not going to a freshly startup law firm, they would want to go with established name. It becomes much more difficult. I often tell lawyers because the profession of law gives you this unique advantage of working in-house, working with law firms as also being able to set up your own practice and which is a very important ingredient of practice of law. You can be independent.

So, I tell mostly the lawyers who are willing to listen to me, not all of them also want to get lessons from seniors, but those who are willing to listen to me, I say never say no to work. If you get an apportion to go to the court, go there. Your experience never goes to waste. Just don’t have this idea that I am in this practice group, so I’ll do only this work. You are limiting your potential. You are doing no harm to the firm. The firm nevertheless will pay for your work and get paid. But for you to grow in practice and be proud of the work that you have done after 20 years of practice, you need to take every opportunity of working in different areas of law as you can get. That is the last one of the few lessons that I’ve learned in my life.

Lindsay: Those are good lessons. Those are really good lessons. So, to wrap up, I always love to ask this question, and that is outside of practicing law, what is one thing that you’re really enjoying right now?

Alishan: What I’m really enjoying right now?

Lindsay: Yes.

Alishan: I’m enjoying being in India. I’m really enjoying being in India, and because my work requires me to travel around the world, but seeing the firm group, seeing the practice stabilize, seeing the practice, seeing the… Now we have some name in India, so seeing the clients approach you on their own without your pitching for work, somebody calling you from some reference, which gives a sense of satisfaction that you have really worked. Sometimes the news comes that you have won a particular award or some of my partners have won a particular award because of independent work market research. That’s a joy. When you submit a nomination, of course you win. That’s also a pride, but the pure joy is when you haven’t even applied for and you have won an award because of word of mouth. The clients who are coming from good entities, invested by companies from US, Japan, Korea, and they say that we have been recommended your name and we want to come and talk to you, and we want to collaborate with you, that gives a pleasure and a deep sense of satisfaction.

Lindsay: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has really been wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us, and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much to all of our listeners as well. We’ll be back next week with another guest. And in the meantime, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much.

Alishan: Thanks a lot, Lindsay. Thank you. Goodbye.